The scrap yard days……
This was very much bittersweet time a time of much love and bonding with my new business partner Andy and pure nightmares at the start of the venture , you never meet a poor scrap merchant but at the beginning of the venture the latter was so true and very real. The wrapping up of the security company had started in my mind and leaving the security company gave me some solace to be home with my ever growing family with everything going on in the background at home. The thought of working away was dreaded to me . Kate never liked the thought of the scrap yard and the people surrounded in that industry were not her lets say type of people shall we say. thinking it was a bad move opening a new scrap yard in the centre of Swansea. I enjoyed the security company so much that I was in love with it and the job role we
After leaving a national company called kings security based in Bradford that i was a regional supervisor/manager , Learning so much in the job that it would set me up in the business world with good stead .My partner who I started the scrap business had left ,the week he left the yard was messy , unorganised to say the least ! Scrap metal was everywhere and not separated and the shed was a right mess and it looked like a rubbish dump. Although i bought a new grab machine and had it delivered up the narrow lane to the industrial estate on a low loader from England several weeks before and a 2005 Scania 8 wheel 40ft hook bin lorry to speed up getting the material we had paid for on our weighbridge then out to large companies and sell and make a profit albeit it a small profit , but profit nonetheless.
I was so busy with the security company at the time and although I had the cctv for the yard live on my mobile phone i genuinely thought it was all in hand as a bigger yard were buying all our stock ( Eps down swansea docks ) They were sending lorry’s to pick loads but not on a higher delivery price but it was a profit nonetheless and my then partner had been in the scrap game all his life as his father once owned the yard many years before so my thoughts were always in a panic of not being in two places at a time.
My own security company was a gamble to take on as kings security had lost the co-op food stores contract and I felt a strong feeling to take the leap and go alone, as in my head i would pick up the odd job and get paid enough to have plenty of time at home with a home/work life balance.
It took a long long time for me to get in with Stanley security who now had the huge installation contract. as i knew the co-op installation jobs inside out and thought that i would be a perfect fit as i knew most stores like the back of my hand , i also sub-contracted to Secom security , Kings security the odd small local companies and did some of my own private work to family and friends and so on to keep myself busy and earning money while i waited itensly for the call i wanted and needed off Stanley and Co-op. knowing the job schedules on re-fits basically off the top of my head and would rerun it in my mind on the way to the job and on the way to the next job , Knowing pretty much all the stores and their layout before i attended , Along with all the store managers in Wales and the south west again with all the store refit main contractors.
I really loved this job as I always did over my career in the industry , and for those who would like to know what an installation of a CCTV , intruder alarm , fire alarm and access control entails..
Iit starts with the —-
1st fix – where you attend site and run every cable needed for the job from a – b according to spec and site plans, i would always get these as close to the device point ie pir sensor, camera , safe alarm and ATM machine as it saves time fishing the cables down cavity later on when you have all the fixtures and fittings in the way , it can be a right pain and you can waste time not spending that extra 2 mins pulling down a wall or getting the cables outside as on the 1st fix its a bare building .
2nd fix – now i loved this part of the installation as i’d see other trades with their trainees constantly swearing trying to find their cables in the newly boarded walls with metal coat hanger hooks fishing and spending way to much time , sometimes i had to do the same but experience had taught me the faster way to label the cables clearer and basically shouting at the dry liners on a note left on the wall ( PLEASE LEAVE OUT OF WALL AT 2M high Please -there is a greggs pasty in it for you , sometimes they probably hated that i was giving them an extra 30 secs out of there time and probably got heart burn of pasties and would throw my cables in a different place even just for a laugh or write back on my clear shouting large black sharpie instructions “ fuck you bender etc “ sometimes i would pop into jobs on my way home from another just to see progress and the site manager would say after i signed into site ‘oh you owe me a favour or pint , i helped you out i got the ceiling boys to cut back all your cables you left in a big loop , nice and neat i’d look at him and say TWAT ‘ site humour is a great way to bond to get know other tradesmen who would become friends and forget the pressure of a quick 2 week turn around shop fit . they would always smile and give me a wink and a chuckle , i got on well with them all on site as i was always early on my schedule with made them look good as it was a job complete on there schedule program of works.
3 phase the commission and handover –
now i was never in a super rush to do this as it had to be done right ,i would test every device and make sure they worked 100%,every camera was focused all labels that i would print off identifying the device would be straight and clean ( sites can be dirty and it takes only a second to make something so white grey and black with dirt – this is how far i would go to make them happy ,attention to detail at its finest ) give the client the best view for the when the store was live and there was shoppers in store, although it was not my contract and i was subcontracting i treated like my own with a real observation of the final finish. Creating my own job sign off sheets and device list which i would fill out along with the clients paperwork, I did this to show professionalism and of course to prove it was complete and i could get paid through an invoice system.
I have to mention someone who i truly really like and has the same work ethic as me when it came to the security industry but he had been with Stanley for 20 plus years and what it meant to do the job you were instructed to do and indeed paid to do .. his name was Paul T the supervisor/manager like i was for kings but he was with Stanley security.
He, like me, took the job role seriously as the importance of an installation was to be of a high standard and not running about on handover day and training staff while flying about the shop floor on steps fixing devices that should be already completed. we only had this problem and it was very rare and would be a 3rd party mistake maybe another trade had moved our cameras or motion detectors in the ceiling to put lights up in the aisles , either way it was nothing big or problematic to solve.
Paul would always be early to site , handover was 1000 hrs but me and him would be there at 0800 just to make sure that everything was spot on as i would normally be finished days before .
he was always smartly dressed in the Stanley security uniform , creases in his uniform like a military man , his boots were highly polished like mirrors , when i 1st met him i asked if he an ex service man but he was a volunteer PCSO with the police in Bristol , If he had been in the army he would have been a Sgt major no problem , I could actually see him running a parade or in charge of a 100 men always very diplomatic and always professional, i never once saw him really frustrated or tired and i truly believe that Stanley security would have been lost without him and also Danny the other supervisor/manager from the midlands -who was never shy getting his tools out to help on a random pop in site visit , not polished like Paul but a really really nice guy who i had time for
we always had a coffee about 0900hrs while chewing the fat about past jobs and would thank me for doing a grand job although i was a grown man and competent engineer it was nice to have a compliment for the forward thinking me and my teams put in upcoming works , he would always say god your stacked out they are coming in thick and fast are you ok with the workload ? because of his mind planning he would give me the dates of other jobs upcoming so i could plan my diary etc with my staff which of course benefitted us both in the long run . He would always be impressed that i had done training and a handover by myself the day before with staff and management, we would always do it together on that day all again not that he didn’t trust me but it was his job which as stated before he was a professional and i admired that about him so much .
With my in house staff training i would get the relevant staff wherever they were store managers ,kiosk counter staff or warehouse staff and go through it thoroughly as every person has a different grade of understanding until you explain , the systems were 2nd nature to me but i would often see the staffs faces when i showed them the new IP cctv system , the looks on their faces like they were looking at a NASA space shuttle control panel, all new and they used to say laughing nervously i cannot even work my smart phone ,i would always laugh knowing that when we had our little training together there fears would be gone and they would be searching , storing and burning off cctv evidence like they had been for years , i wouldn’t leave until they had this right and indeed Paul would do it all over again the next day in his very calming and confirming understanding way that his personal demeanour was , i always enjoyed watching Paul do this and take words and routines he would use for my next private showing of the newly installed security systems . Training of the staff on the tills always were in my mind as i heard a story once of a cash till getting robbed once and the semi-retired women who worked at a store in-between looking after her grandchildren was in such a shock of the trauma oshe never really recovered and had a sort of ptsd which in turn made her give up her delightful job , she really never went into shops on her own afterwards as she was fearful of that day running around her memory a fearful moment that changed her outlook on the world, I was taken by this story because she never knew about the panic alarms on the base of the till and if she would have known she would have pushed it and the robber probably { maybe probably }would have run off in a panic and she would have still worked there with her work friends ,and was seeing the regulars that came in and there small chit chat talk over the weekly shop, so with this in mind i would put the whole system on test with the alarm receving centre and police and get them to push that panic alarm , reset it , push it again , have her pretend that i was a robber in front of her I’d say something like ‘ GIVE ME ALL THE BANANAS AND CHUCK A PACK OF ROLLING PAPERS IN AND THE SUN NEWSPAPER , OH AND I WANT A MOP AND BUCK AND A FILLET STEAK ETC ‘ to which they would push the button on the panic alarm with confidence while laughing at my ridiculous armed robber terms while standing in front of the kiosk with my fingers on my hands making a pistol shape, It was all a joke but it worked i always left the site knowing that my job was done and i could sort of sleep in the knowledge that the job was done 100% .
In the end it was so busy I decided to slow down and take on the scrap yard with 100% commitment. Running the yard on my own for a few weeks was tough i’ll admit it now ,but i couldn’t get on top of the stock all over the yard , I mean it was everywhere , there wasn’t a way to get it out quicker , Eps would say they would send a wagon up and half the time they wouldn’t turn up, or i would have an email saying we’ll do 3 trips tomorrow which of course never would happen , i just couldn’t manage it !! Dealing with customers, answering the phone, email enquiries ,i had some temp staff but as Andy later on told me and i knew this anyway … pay peanuts you get monkeys !!!
Then one day it was like a storm !Trading standards, NRW , The council and the HSE all turned up and looked at the yard and basically with a look of agreement and the flash of the folders that instead had ticks all over and every page of the improvements notice, There was just all big black crosses and they hadn’t even got past the main gate . they shut me down for a month to clear the yard and make it look presentable , organised and Safer .One of the reasons i couldn’t get on top of this situation was due to me having bad news about my brother passing away, Steven was 36 years old and the death unexplained , He went asleep and never woke – there so much i would like to say about my beloved brother and the adventures we had as we both love music and we were gig buddies , these will stay with me in my heart and mind for now . but I miss and think of him every day. but i was not grieving but it was like a shadow that drained my energy, a sort of shock . but one thing i still agree on is that i was so grateful he was in my life and he was my brother and I’m so glad of the memories we had together no matter how crazy or random they were … we had a lot of fun !!!! So with the yard shut ,it was like a relief I suppose as I had been flat out for years and took it like a blessing ,but would the customers return when I re-opened ? Who knew but part of me didn’t care. I was home for now , the yard was shut and I concentrated on getting my security staff laid off although most left like children stamping their feet and not giving back company property which I worked so hard to buy. Me and Katie went out on a Sunday with the boys around the Industrial park near smyths toys over llansamlet. It was a warm sunny day and after an hour or so we thought we’d have a little BBQ out in our back garden and let the boys play with their toys . She suggested we go to lidl ,as she went in with a list in her head that we discussed , im a pretty fussy eater and like what i like , So i told her to call me if there was a change in our little bbq menu we made up on the spot and what was in the reduced area. No matter how well we did over the years we were a sucker for a bargain and me especially would normally buy the whole lot as Andy once found out on a road trip with his triplets to Birmingham to buy a tipper and we stopped at a marks and Spencer’s services and all ready meals were reduced to 40-50p i spent about £80 and had so many bags running back and forth my crew cab van we went up in while he and his sons were laughing eating their pork pies and crisps .. they never seen anyone buy so much in a reduced item fridge still hear them laughing as I’m writing this and Andy’s face and shaking his head with a smile i always loved seeing.
So i give my boys the phone outside Lidl to watch Youtube while their mum was in the shop while i glazed over just random thoughts listening to XFM on my car radio and remembering how happy and content i was feeling amongst all the trouble around me that should have bothered me but didn’t and i was wondering why ??
The phone rings .. I rub my hands and say to Elis pass the phone my son mummy’s found us a right bargain in there ..
it was withheld.. mmm strange so i answered it …” hi babe ” i said confused of the withheld number ‘ is that craig i said yes ‘this is south Wales police , do you own the scrap yard near the stadium on Siloh rd ,replying yeah but it’s closed at the moment and i don’t know what i’m doing with it .. she stopped me mid talk explaining about why i was closed and said there has been an arson attack in the yard, We have been trying to get hold of you since Friday night and also Saturday day time , we called the number on the gate but it was my ex partners number and i hadn’t had time to put mine on yet with the signwriter ,they explained to him what had happened and he said call him nothing to do with me and hung up.. that alone shocked me as I’d know him for years and thought he would at least tell me out of courtesy .. they explained that the Grab machine had been burnt out, I stopped them and said I’ll be there now I’m not far away ..i hung up called kate inside and give her a quick brief on what call i just had , she flew out after dumping her trolley and we headed as a family to the yard in my security company silver estate car only a couple of miles away , i pulled up fast , got out and the police were everywhere outside along with the fire brigade .The gate was shut and the police were getting in and out using ladders from the fire brigade ,i opened the huge swinging gate after opening the big padlock , as the gate swung open with me holding it following and guiding it i looked across the yard , i couldn’t see any smoke or flames …but there was the machine i bought only weeks before burnt to pieces ..i secured the gate asked the officers what else was damaged as i secured the gate to the non-ferrous metal shed and the shutter was down so that seemed ok.. saw the Scania 8 wheel parked in the corner again all ok, looked at the office it was all still locked up… so damage control .. just the 30 Tonne rubber duck scrap grab machine had been burnt out .. what I really thought and I honestly thought this and remembered it like yesterday .. was fuck it could have been worse!!!!!! It was a problem but in the grand scheme of things .. I couldn’t care less.. it was like a blessing ..even with the knowledge that it wasn’t insured as the broker let me down twice on a site visit …maybe a blessing that this wasn’t meant to be as Kate would always say get rid of the yard it’s a constant worry and nightmare and go back on the tools ,we would have 2 salaries and we could live comfortable as we once did .
I unlocked the office and burnt off all the CCTV evidence on 3 x usb sticks. They took fingerprints and DNA of the pyro equipment they used to light the fire, i did all this quick said my piece knowing they would do sweet fuck all about it ( which i was right about in the end of my enquires with them ) and got everyone out ,locked the gate , went to the car and headed home with another problem on my shoulders … knowing that the agency’s who shut me down for a month to clear the yard would have known by now and would have been checking my progress with probably an extra month or 2 extension of closure .
I took it as a blessing that I was getting out , I wasn’t broken by it as other things preoccupied my mind and this was indeed a sign that my scrap yard days were up . The stock , lorry and the burnt machine plus the 10 year lease i could probably pass on with some money on the side meant i could break even from an experience not at a loss but a break even situation.
i thought fuck it !!!! I’M OUT — I’M DONE !!!! I slept ok that night .. really peaceful.
Awakening one morning, one day after spending the last few days deliberating about the yard, home life and the security company .. I went down once or twice to the yard and saw lads by then the closed gates in their transit tippers waiting for me to open .. I told them I didn’t know what was happening with it and it was definitely closed for at least a month due to the agency’s issuing that notice to me .. I didn’t even open the gate , just spoke to them by their cabs with the windows down out the front on the road .. they would say fuck Jimmy (this was my nick name I had since a kid and never left me and I always answered to it when called – still do to this day ) .. its the best yard about and always has been .. you’ve had it tough here and people don’t want you open .. fuck em they’d say I know what I would do if I owned it and anyway you have us still as customers you’ve always been great with us . it was food for thought .. so I left them to go weigh in their scrap at another yard , as they drove off they wished me luck but I just didn’t have the energy to think about it .. I was just enjoying the sort of peace I was getting at that time , I had a few missed calls of Mike who owned the property and he was whom I had the 10 year lease with he was probably wondering what was going on as I used to give updates on the various troubles I had while I had the yard from the start , a kind of honesty and communication you know !! sometimes he would pop in and see me for a catch up ( mainly to weigh his van to see if he was overloaded by weight of tools on his key cutting locksmith van on the weighbridge )
I enjoyed the week or so with the kids and being at home .. was I in shock about the arson attack, I think there was many factors but I wasn’t in a grump .. just a little lost but not confused if you know what i mean, I should have been doing back flips with anger and worry .. but I wasn’t and I couldn’t put my finger on the feelings I was having at that time.
Like a fucking lightning bolt I woke up and it hit me and I thought fuck . I’m OPENING back up .. I’M GOING TO MAKE THIS YARD WORK. !!! The thought of working for someone else filled me with dread .. screw it I’m going back to being my own boss once again and it’s down the road .. no more hotels , no more million miles a year driving around ..I messaged her indoors and her response was ” think about it , you’ve had so much bad luck there , just leave it and cut your losses , although I couldn’t see her face I knew what face she would be pulling probably hand on her fore head shaking it like she had sent an email to the wrong person or gave the wrong medication by accident to a patient in the queue when she worked at a pharmacy when we 1st met “
I going to prove every fucker wrong and make this a success ..
I went straight to the yard and opened the gate .. turned away a few customers while I planned to go through the books .. opened up everything as a normal working day then shut the gate for privacy .. I thought right, the machine is gone .. but there is so much stock here and the shed bins were all loaded with non-ferrous metals and battery’s etc ..
I did a stock check .. it didn’t look bad .. I’d lost a lot of money .. but I figured if I bought a small machine for about 10k something to fill the bins while I dug in work wise and flipped the product to a main buyer , I could pay off the VAT bill and have a enough , just enough to trade , it was a daunting prospect .. but I thrive under pressure.
So here we go !!
Focused on the task ahead. I used my connections to the underworld to find out who did it , which junkie burnt my machine out and most of all who paid them !!!! my feelers were everywhere, I didn’t offer any money I just asked for a return favour I once done for the big men in return
My thoughts were I’m in deep and it will be tight getting this yard going again . I’d have to be on the ball with all local authorities and the last thing I wanted when I was up and running was to have another arson attack .. next time it could be a lot worse and with the home over my children’s head at risk because of the lease ties I wanted this nipped and quicky.
I approached Terry perdue and asked him as he had a yard himself years ago on Townhill, I could get and use some of his wisdom of his .. his only advice was to speak to Andrew Thomas from AJT recycling to help with the clearance of the yard with the burnt out machine , he would definitely do something with the now fucked beyond repair heavy metal to that once resembled a grab machine ( he’d bust it apart with his team and sell for parts and scrap the rest ) and he’ll give you a good price , although I heard on the grapevine that he thought I was a threat in my new little yard , I wasn’t !! in fact I wanted to do business with him , I heard he knew my uncle through there love of horses and I would constantly get told by my 1st partner ” don’t ever trust him or do business with him , we’d only get ripped off as he doesn’t care about anyone but himself ” I used to say it’s business why would he cut his pockets when we could potentially be his little yard in the centre of Swansea when his ever growing yard was in fforestfach Ind est and he could earn more with access to the centre of Swansea scrap boys that didn’t want to head up to him the other side of town.
So I made the call with Terry . spoke to Andrews scrap yard office and explained who I was and the situation I was in , the manager there left my number with Johnny on his weigh bridge as he would see him 1st when he came into his own yard , I said my farewells to Terry as he went back Over to his own skip company I went home to mull over prices etc on the hope what he would pay me with the market at the time .
In the yard the next day I still had a tipper and some of the boys helped me load their vans when they saw me struggling . I was just cracking on I couldn’t afford a machine but I could when invoices were due to be paid in a week or so and some money I would put in myself, just to help clear the yard, I was running the hand loaded tippers with non-ferrous and then once all that was done over a couple of days .. I would start clearing the scrap around the weighbridge and the machine, so if I got the call from Andrew Thomas it would be easier for him to get his equipment in .
Sweating on a Thursday afternoon standing on back at the top of another loaded tipper full as I could stack it .. my phone goes ..
An old weary husky confident voice said ” is that Jimmy , I heard you have a problem and maybe you need my help .. I don’t fuck about I’ll be there tomorrow at 5 o’clock sharp, just me and Duke , see ya I’ll bring cans !! ” He put the phone down ..without me even giving a reply the line went dead !! I looked at masons one of the boys just helping me do some loads , he looked up while passing me a rusty cooker to load the transit tipper .. said ” Andrew Thomas was it “
Yeah I said .. very strange call .. masons looked back and said while rolling his eyes ” crazy as fuck … He’s not right in the head mind , but he will look after you I promise you that “
Got home knackered and drained as I had been a week trying to empty the yard , I had my tea which she always made and I wolfed it down due to exhaustion and went to bed early , my body aching all over a repeat of the previous day’s .
Next morning I was up and as early as I had been all week .. I half expected a courtesy call of Andrew Thomas but there wasn’t. The day flew by with me mindful of the 5 o’clock sharp phone call .. so I did my last run in the tipper at 1400 and was back in my yard for 1530 .. due to the phone call I had bought some cans of lager and cider to show it like a good will gesture that I liked a can after work and maybe we could bond , sort of break the ice .
I sat on the weighbridge and he came flying over my speed ramp through my gate and over to the shed . Pulled up with a huge alsatian dog in the back all locked away barking and banging the mesh of his red defender like a lunatic or lion just waiting to be released onto his prey ( this was Duke , not an advisor or a buyer he would take around to confide with about buying potential material – but a man’s best friend his dog ) this man did everything thing himself and built his business from nothing with one of his sons I’d heard – there is so much I can say about Andrew , the way he is , what he is like etc .. all I can say is that once you meet him you’ll never forget him and in his words he needs 3 lifetimes to carry out his ambitions in life , again his words ” I’ve got too many miles on the clock and it’s not getting easier at my age “
He was fuming about the staff in his yard. . lazy fuckers he’d say ,I need to sack them all etc etc really grinding his teeth about …
He bought cans but drank them before he got to me. I thought it was charming!! so I pulled out my little supply and we chatted about the scrap game .. ” it’s getting tough out there, everyone Is hungry and thirsty for more .. how can we make money with our overheads, the pricks just don’t get it , I have mouths to feed , by that he meant he had staff wages to pay and he wanted the world’s scrap supplied by only his and his yard alone….
We agreed on a price through and through with no haggling from Me. I was happy and could see why Terry had recommended this man .. his old friend of many years .
We agreed on the upcoming Monday morning at 0600 he would be there with his plant machines , hook lorries and it would be all cleared in one day , the weight would be worked out and paid the next day into the business account , I thought fuck me that’s sharp , like he said on the phone when I was loading the day before with mason ” he doesn’t fuck about ” this man was busy and flat out .
The weekend came and went and I was up at 0500 and went to the yard .. Andrew was there just before 6 waiting for his team to come. Fuck he blew his top .. they were late .. he screamed like fuck .. the people in the houses next to the yard even came out and he told them all to fuck off in typical Andrew fashion . No fucks given ever !!
The yard was done and emptied by 1800 hrs he left his machine there for the night as an hydraulic pipe had burst so he would get it fixed and collected the next day .. the invoice was paid and he gave me an extra couple of grand for the parts he would sell on from the burnt out machine ( the grab and lifting jack’s on the rubber duck etc )
Yesssss I was back in business , just like that . I stayed closed that week to plan ahead and get myself another grab machine off eBay or whatever and let the old customers know I was reopening the coming up Monday and would now sell to Andrew direct which I was happy about .. but there was a problem I couldn’t get a machine for my budget or on time for Monday grand reopen .
I had been loading tipper vans by hand so I thought just to get by I would carry on but have a 40 yard bin supplied by Andrew that I would use the old diesel forklift I had on hire , it was cheap and reliable and the reach went above a hook bin so I could stack the extension forks with plenty more to tip in .. some on the customers even reversed up to the huge bin and threw it in themselves as a favour to help me out as they wanted me to succeed due to the nightmare at the start .. A couple of weeks went by and I was managing just about and I mean JUST ABOUT !! .. never had time to get a machine but we had a visit from the German Gestapo of the local authorities and they were happy .. out of the blue the price of scrap went up .. within days my yard was full again .. now this was a time i thought it’s not meant to be in this yard because it didn’t matter how early I got up and went home at dark , I couldn’t see a way to get on top of it without closing for a few days to get a machine as I had no one to run it for me while I took a day or two and that day with council due the week after I thought .. ” I had a good run .. I did good .. i thought I’ll call Andrew now otherwise this will go around and around and it was getting to me .. why can’t I get ahead in this yard .. 2 steps forward and 6 back . I was tired and defeated .. my days as a scrap metal merchant were done. I had decided that afternoon ..
I looked out the office window and seen this immaculate white MAN LORRY with Hiab and grab and a huge pile of what is know as heavy farm machinery scrap
I sat behind my desk in the weighbridge and this man walked in and asked was it ok to weigh off at this yard .. I didn’t have the heart to show my defeat as a man and the yard and thought why not ..
He was a thickset stocky man with a flat cap on who looked very strong , had huge hands .he had his triplets with him aged 10 at the time ( Andy, billy and Thomas ) But he was very quiet and he was subdued and very very reserved. He didn’t say much after that .. he gave me a wink , a wink I would later on know that he would do this wink only of he had a good feel for you ,a wink that he would give you his time… He weighed off and used that huge Hiab to get his heavy farm scrap off .
His name was Andy and he and I didn’t know it at that point but he was my future business partner in the yard !!! He was most of all my solid constant force in my life . like the brother I lost .. I had literally just met someone who would have a great influence in my life to not only me but my children and I hopefully with his family.